“It’s not just about finding clothes that fit my body, but my desire to fit my body to the clothes”

“Being transgender has nothing to do with stereotypes!”, has become a mantra we are told over and over:

“Gender identity isn’t about how you look, or act necessarily.  Gender identity is about how you feel about your body, your body map so to speak.  Gender identity is your innermost sense of self.  Clothing, gender roles, or acquired behaviors can’t compensate for that.”

For something that is supposedly so utterly unimportant to transgender people, they sure talk about it a whole lot. This poster says “I think I might be trans”, and reports liking flowers, dresses and butterflies as signs of inner girlhood.

megastereotypes2

So, gender roles are completely orthogonal to gender identity, but knowing you’re trans because you like butterflies and dresses is completely valid, Then in the comments, we find this: “I am more comfortable in women’s clothing”. People’s “body maps” apparently include clothing preferences.

megastereotype3

This website tells us that “[b]eing masculine or feminine (i.e. having mannerisms or interests that are seen by society as stereotypical of one gender) has nothing to do with being male or female (i.e. identifying as a certain gender)”. But this poster, who was unable to deal with driving a “masculine car” while wearing a dress, replaced the car with a car that was apparently deemed sufficiently feminine.

megastereotype1

Girls need to be driving girly cars, but stereotypes has nothing to do with it!

According to this reddit comment, “gender identity” is

The brain’s interpretation of sex. As a result of sexual differentiation in utero, gender identity can develop contrary to sexual development of the body. Generally speaking this is based off internal understanding of the body, not gender roles.

Someone should let this commenter from this post know, since they have decided to transition in a desire to fit their body to certain clothes:

magastereotypes4

It’s all about the internal understanding of the body, and also how the body looks in clothes.

10 thoughts on ““It’s not just about finding clothes that fit my body, but my desire to fit my body to the clothes”

      • Strangely enough, I just switched from a stereotypical “girl car” (small, 4 cylinder, cute) to a HD v8 work truck and I get treated way better on the road by pretty much everyone. When I drove my other car, I used to get menaced by cars and trucks on the highway because they wanted to beat up on the “girl car” and now those same men dude nod me and give me the right of way because they assume I’m also a man.

        I must be trans-mission 🙂

        But seriously, people apparently do have sex stereotypes for vehicles, which just shows how deeply ingrained this awful gendering shit really is in our society.

        Liked by 1 person

  1. Interesting. Another proof that almost no woman can be defined as “cis”: There are lots and lots of women who desire to fit their bodies to the clothes that are deemed appropriate for females to wear, but do not fit the average form of a human being. First and foremost pointy high heels, into which no healthy foot really fits.

    Regarding the guy who felt better in the less masculine car … well, with the rising prices for fuel, I would feel better, too, if I got a new car that burns less fuel. (I can only guess, but to me, “masculine car” sounds like a car whose main purpose is to show everyone that the owner is insecure about his penis size)

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  2. I’m not sure if this belongs here, but after this website helped me realize how badly depression was bothering me and that I’m not trans I feel like I should post. You helped me realize how bad these communities can be.

    I recently had one hell of an ordeal happen in my life. After feeling depressed for several months, my wife finally said something made me question my sexual orientation followed by my gender identity. To explain why that is, let me first talk about my depression.
    I’ve been depressed on and off all through my life. When in middle school, I was depressed because of how often I was picked on and the fact that I had very few friends. The entirety of middle school for me was a living hell. I was picked on by the boys and girls most of which were my friends in elementary school. I was even made fun of by their parents for having no interest in their daughters or not having a girlfriend. Yes, I was told I was gay by classmate’s parents because I had no interest in their bitchy daughters. Even the teachers gave me no break. One of the “perks” of being at a co-ed middle school that only had a girl’s high school was teachers generally not giving a shit about you and giving the girls all the attention. All the guys were fuck ups as far as the teachers were concerned. I was miserable. I was depressed. I wasn’t going to let the bullies win because I’m a hardheaded idiot. My mother gave me ample opportunity to leave that school, but I was not going to give up so easily and I didn’t. This was the first time in my life where I hated myself, cried regularly, and wanted to give up. I graduated 8th grade and got the fuck out of there. High school saved me. Most of the male classmates from middle school went to the high school I went to, but guess what? I never had to interact with them again. I made new friends and joined new social groups. It was an all-male school, so no stupid male competition and girl-based bullying. I thrived. People now thought I was going to become a priest because I still had no interest in girls, which was funny for a while but got annoying. I was happy in high school. Happier than I had ever been in elementary and middle school because I had new friends and was no longer being bullied daily by everyone. I could happily be me: a generally happy, somewhat nerdy guy. Now that’s not to say that I didn’t fight depression in high school. I did, but it wasn’t because of bullying. I got hopelessly addicted to World of Warcraft in sophomore year and the fears of graduation and the changes that would happen in college got me down in senior year. As a matter of fact, senior year was the first time that I first had the idea of hoping the world would end so it would just be over. I didn’t realize this was depression, but I actually wanted the world to end with the Mayan calendar. This carried with me into college as well and even into my marriage. Depression sucks ass and is the worst bully you will ever have.
    Now if this comment is supposed to deal with questioning your gender, where is the gender questioning? Well during middle school and a few events in high school, I also had some moments where I wished I was female. This is where the transgender light bulb mistakenly popped into my head. See I wanted to be a girl quite a few times during middle school. I thought I got the short end of the stick when it came to birth sex because coming out of elementary school I had a lot of female friends who thanks to school politics, kid politics, and parents being dicks suddenly made it so boys and girls couldn’t be friends anymore. I was happily in the middle of being one of the boys and one of the girls in elementary school and suddenly I was neither. The girls weren’t allowed to have me and the boys didn’t want anything to do with me. Oh and my best friend (a girl) left the school in 6th grade, which left me basically alone. I also had many strong female role models starting with my mother who was my family’s primary breadwinner. So I had thoughts. I had a lot of thoughts. I wished that I would wake up one day as a girl or that aliens would abduct me and put my brain in the wrong body. I wanted to be more like my mom. Frequently, I wanted to wear the girl’s uniform because I guess in my head that would make me a girl and I would be happy. I was super jealous of girls especially if they were attractive. Then in high school, I found myself making female characters in video games for no real reason. I realize now that it was because I wanted to for fairly normal reasons, but more on that later. Basically, I had a laundry list of things that suddenly made me think that I might be transgender and the more my brain turned and turned the more things that popped up. Depression made them pop into my head without their proper context and what I did next was what ultimately did me in.
    I posted on a transgender online community asking if I might be transgender and listing many of the above things. All of a sudden, you start seeing replies like: “you sound just like me”, “honey, you are transgender”, “cis people don’t question”, and “keep connecting those dots ;)”. So what did this do to me? It threw me deeper into questioning my gender identity. I went in the span of almost two months from thinking maybe it was a coincidence to wanting to find the nearest gender therapist and start taking hormones. You see when you are depressed and especially if you were bullied as a child, you have a tendency to have low self-esteem, a bad body image, and some amount of anxiety. Being depressed warps your perception of things and I was unable to see the happy moments in my life or the context of the desire to be a woman. Posting on a transgender community forum and reading posts there only made me find more parallels things in my life that were related to people who realized they were transgender. The more and more I read, the deeper and deeper I fell. You see on these websites you have people questioning their gender and people who are transgender replying and giving advice. It ultimately boils down to someone who isn’t sure of themselves asking questions and someone who is transgender seeing a lot of their own life in the post and replying back. You don’t get the other side of this at all. You never see the person who questioned their gender and realized that they were happy as their birth gender the entire time. They just never post there again and if they do there’s a good chance the post gets removed. This is a fairly normal thing when growing up too. My wife for example was the only girl in her family of 3 brothers. Her best friend growing up was her youngest brother and she frequently wished she could be more like them growing up. My mother was the same way with her cousins.
    So what made me go from being a depressed male to wanting needing to become a woman? I was simply looking for a way out of my depression which was only getting worse and in my head I convinced myself that my depression was actually gender dysphoria. Why would I do that? Well when you spill your life out in a post and suddenly everyone is telling you that you are probably transgender, you start thinking that you actually are transgender. To bring the female video game character thing back up everyone was saying how they did that too because it secretly means you want to be a girl. I made those female characters because I wanted to escape from reality not be reminded of it. What better way to escape reality than to play a game with a character that doesn’t represent you in any way at all? You see people saying things like: “I needed hormones so I wouldn’t kill myself” and you start thinking that you need them too because if you don’t resolve these feelings you’ll eat a bullet in the future. People also say things like you need to start ASAP because of all the “damage” testosterone has done to your body and that’s when the dysphoria really kicked in for me. I started crying in the shower. I couldn’t look at myself in the mirror and then I couldn’t look at myself period. I would sit there imagining myself as a woman being happy and oddly enough the depression would life a little bit. Let me explain why. You are feeling sad. You imagine yourself happy and smiling. You feel happier. I wanted to be happier and transitioning suddenly made so much sense. Luckily I have supportive parents who wouldn’t care if I was transgender, but also realized that this came out of nowhere for me. Also, I’m happily married and have a son. I think that at some point there would have been red flags. Hell going to an all-male school would have been hell for me if I was actually transgender. I was literally going through moments in my life and trying to make connections that weren’t really there.
    Okay obviously I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m not transgender, so why are these online communities dangerous? Questioning yourself and posting on a community full of people who are transgender when you aren’t sure is only going to lead you to think that you are transgender. That’s like someone who thinks that they might love a dog for a pet asking a dog lover if they should get a dog. There should be a place for people who are questioning their gender to ask and get advice from both sides of the issue. Places like reddit.com/r/asktransgender, Empty Closets, and Susan’s Place are full of folks who identify as transgender. When someone is in a shitty spot mentally or emotionally it is very easy for them to be steered in the wrong direction. Even going to a therapist that specializes in gender issues might be the wrong person to turn to because they will steer you that way. Some people decide they must be transgender because they prefer the other gender’s clothing, are attracted to their birth sex, or because they are more of a submissive or dominate personality. None of these things make someone transgender. People cross-dress for sexual reasons as well as clothing preference reasons, that doesn’t make you transgender. People can be homosexual and not be transgender. You can be a dominate-personality woman or a submissive-personality man and not be transgender. Being a man or a woman isn’t some feeling deep inside. You can’t reduce gender to feelings and bad stereotypes. Toys, clothing, and hobbies don’t have gender attached to them. If you like to knit and you are a guy, you are a guy that likes to knit not a transgender woman. If you are a girl who likes to play video games, you are a girl that likes to play video games not a transgender man. You also shouldn’t try to diagnose yourself, which leads me to what was causing my recent depression and how I climbed back out of it.
    One of the things that I did on this “journey” was visiting my primary care doctor for a physical. I wanted to check my sex hormone levels to make sure that it wasn’t that. I had also noticed a drop in libido. He did a full panel of tests which included things like cholesterol and vitamin levels as well as PSA. My testosterone levels were just fine, but my vitamin D levels were almost non-existent. No surprise there since I tend to avoid the sun anymore. Well guess what that deficiency can cause? Depression and lack of energy are on that symptom list. So I started taking vitamin D supplements and something magical happened. My libido came soaring back much to the pleasure of my wife and I stopped feeling depressed. The “dysphoria” I was feeling completely went away and my skin started looking a lot healthier as well. My mother told me I was much more pleasant to be around too. Fixing the depression seems to solve the problem.
    If there is anything to take away from this, it’s to seek actual help from medical professionals, friends and family not strangers on the internet. Switching hormones and changing gender might not feel like a huge change, but it is. You are permanently changing your body and potentially sterilizing yourself. Transition is something that should be a last ditch effort to fix depression and suicidal thoughts after counseling and anti-depressants didn’t work. It isn’t something to be done lightly like these communities make it sound.

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  3. I’ve always loved fashion, more than my mother and sisters ever did. But even so, one thing I realized rather young was that Fashions Change! At the start of the 20th century, women wore skirts to the floor – by the 1920s, short skirts were the norm. In the 1940s, pants on a woman were daring – by the 1970s, pretty much unremarkable. Women in the 20th C would see within their lifetimes large changes in what was typical for women to wear. Fit one’s body to the clothes? That sounds as unlike an adult woman as anything a human being could say.

    But what’s typical of what MTTs want to wear doesn’t change much – tons of makeup, short skirts, high heels, slinky/tight everything. The type of clothes that only a minority of middle aged women actually wear (and even women who like such clothes might run out shopping wearing jeans & tee shirts, and no makeup)

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